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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
 Posted - 12/14/2009 : 5:35:33 PM
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In November of 1978, Cincinnati Stingers head coach Floyd Smith had a deal in place to acquire 17-year-old center Wayne Gretzky from the Indianapolis Racers. But the deal fell through at the last minute when the Edmonton Oilers got wind that Indianapolis was about to move Gretzky for financial reasons, and offered to also take left the contracts of left wing Peter Driscoll and goaltender Eddie Mio off the Racers' hands.
What if the Stingers had acquired Gretzky? How would the landscape for Cincinnati pro hockey be different today had Smith been able to complete that deal? |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
Edited by - Donnie Hockey on 12/14/2009 5:36:11 PM |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 01:47:41 AM
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Easy.
The Cincinnati Stingers would have been a part of the "expansion" of the NHL for the 1979-80 season.
Messier, Gartner, Liut and Gretzky would have anchored the Stingers to a few Stanley Cup Championships.
Riverfront Coliseum would have been expanded to seat 20,000 and have two levels of luxury boxes.
The Stingers would have ultimately had to relocate as the Cincinnati market could not provide sufficient revenue for an NHL team. The Stingers would have joined the Hartford Whalers (Carolina), Quebec Nordiques (Colorado) and Winnipeg Jets (Phoenix) as former WHA teams which could not sustain in their original NHL market.
The Gardens would have been converted to a warehouse by 1981 (as originally planned) by its then new owner Jerry Robinson.
The 2009-10 Cincinnati hockey team would be named the Stingers and be competing in the AHL. Its home ice would be the Procter & Gamble Center. P&G would have purchased the naming rights to the former Riverfront Coliseum in the mid 1980's once the naming rights of sports venues had become commonplace.
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"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 02:05:01 AM
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The Stingers would only have been able to protect two skaters in the expansion draft, which would have been Gretzky and Gartner. Messier would have still entered the NHL Entry Draft and would have still probably gone in the third round to Edmonton. The Stingers would have given up second, third, fourth, fifth round picks to St. Louis and Montreal to retain the rights to Mike Liut, Peter Marsh, Jamie Hislop and Craig Norwich.
Gerry Robinson bought the Gardens so it wouldn't be converted into a warehouse. His plan was to bring the arena back as a sports and entertainment venue. People assumed converting it to a warehouse was what he was going to do with it when he bought it. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 02:20:16 AM
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The teams were also allowed to protect two goalies. So Liut would have been protected. Messier may have been drafted by the Stingers as well. Who knows? In any case, the team would have had two HOFers, including probably the greatest hockey player of all time on its roster. Even without Messier, three players of the caliber of Gretzky, Liut and Gartner would have been a magnificent core to build around.
Had the NHL come to Cincinnati AND the Who concert tragedy hadn't occured, the Gardens wouldn't have had much of a chance to survive as an entertainment venue. In fact, had the Who concert deal not occurred even without the NHL coming, the Gardens survival as a sports/ent. venue would have been a very iffy proposition imo. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 02:38:55 AM
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They actually would have had to give up a pick to St. Louis for Liut because his two-year deal with the Stingers was up and he had agreed to terms with the Blues. St. Louis wanted a third-round pick and the promise the Stingers wouldn't select certain unprotected players in the expansion draft in exchange. All these details had been worked out in the event Cincinnati did become part of the merger.
The Stingers wouldn't of had the picks to get Messier, unless they would have used their first round pick on him. Doubtful they would have done that.
BTW...Raymond Bourque had agreed to terms with the Stingers the same time Gartner did in 1978, but opted out of the deal 48 hours later. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 02:51:02 AM
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I'd guess that the Stingers would have given up a 3rd rounder for Liut as a quality goalie is definitely worth that. Plus, had the Stingers been a lock to go to the NHL (which they would have been with Gretzky), then Liut wouldn't have signed (maybe couldn't have) with STL--one would think so anyway.
I hadn't known or I've forgotten (it's over 30 years ago-wow) about Bourque. If one includes him in the mix, then the team which would have taken the ice in Cincinnati would have been sensational- possibly an Edmonton Oiler or NY islander equivalent given the (lack of) free agency of that era. Instead we got Mike Chigasola, Gilbert Dionne, Chris Kunitz and David Desharnais. Not bad, but not what could have been.
It says a lot about the ability to evaluate talent of the Stinger staff of that era. Jerry Rafter and Flo Potvin knew their stuff. The underage signings of the WHA really were fun to see. Too bad the Bourque deal was never consummated.
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"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Edited by - hrc666 on 12/15/2009 02:59:20 AM |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 03:10:06 AM
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Liut was the best goalie that I've seen with a Cincinnati-based pro hockey team; Robbie Ftorek the best player.
Obviously, Messier and Gartner went on to become the two best players that played in Cincinnati. But while they played here hands down the best player was Ftorek. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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Hockey Traveller
(The Next Level!)
134 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 02:28:41 AM
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| I disagree that the Stingers would have gone to the NHL had they acquired Gretzky. The Stingers were afforded the opportunity to be a part of the merger, and the owners opted to take the money and run. Gretzky wasn't the Great One yet, and the Stingers' owners still would have taken the buyout. |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 03:36:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hockey Traveller
I disagree that the Stingers would have gone to the NHL had they acquired Gretzky. The Stingers were afforded the opportunity to be a part of the merger, and the owners opted to take the money and run. Gretzky wasn't the Great One yet, and the Stingers' owners still would have taken the buyout.
The Stingers and the Birmingham Bulls were NOT offered to be part of the merger. They willingly took the buyout ($3.15 million) which each were offered. The previous season had been an iffy proposition. It materialized only after Elder Beerman purchased roughly 100 tickets on the final day of the Season Ticket Drive which needed 5,000 full season tickets for the Stingers to survive.
The Stingers were one of the WHA teams which would have been part of the merger had those discussions ended favorably in the previous year (78-79). Had one less NHL team voted against the merger in the 1978 vote, then the Stingers would have been part of the NHL for the 1978-79 season-the season which turned out to be the WHA's final season of operation.
The aquisition of Gretzky would have probably revitalized the hopes of Bill DeWitt and Brian Heekin of realizing their NHL dream. Riverfront Coliseum (which was the project of DeWitt and Heekin) had been built to house an NHL team-the WHA Stingers only came about after the NHL awarded expansion teams to Washington and Kansas City for the 74-75 season. Had the "Great One" been properly analyzed as the generational player that he was (not a very hard thing to do even then), it would have been almost impossible for the Stinger owners not to go forward and join the NHL. Further, had the Stingers signed Gretzky to the type of contract that Edmonton had (a personal services contract), then they would have forced the hand of the NHL to offer them a spot in the merger.
It would be interesting to ask DeWitt the answer to this question. Heekin would just ramble on about kwh savings
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"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Edited by - hrc666 on 12/17/2009 03:48:49 AM |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 12:50:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hrc666
It would be interesting to ask DeWitt the answer to this question.
I already have. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 3:02:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
quote:
Originally posted by hrc666
It would be interesting to ask DeWitt the answer to this question.
I already have.
What did he say? |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2009 : 4:18:42 PM
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The Stingers were given an opportunty to be included with Edmonton, New England, Quebec and Winnipeg in the NHL merger but Bill DeWitt didn't think it was "feasible to do so" and opted instead for the indemnification fee.
Had the Stingers acquired Gretzky, they would have had the piece in place they needed at the time to attract the additional investors DeWitt needed to make joining the NHL "feasible."
With players like Michel Parizeau and Chuck Luksa it's hard to believe DeWitt wasn't able to secure the investors he needed to turn the Stingers into an NHL franchise. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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