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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2013 : 1:12:12 PM
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Okay before everyone goes crazy on this idea, please give it a
thought. I know this team is fighting an overload of skaters but
what is most needed is a constant veteran who will always be there
and help with the young player's development. I think you know the
name I'm throwing out- Barret Ehgoetz ! First off, if he is not in
skating shape, I will agree this is not an option. The loss of Aubin
appears to be showing right now and I agree we don't need to keep trouble
on the roster. That being said, what actually happened has never been
reported from either side. Another player we all hate but I would love to
see on the team right now is Yannick Tifu. Pest on the ice who plays 100%
no matter who he's matched up against. |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 1:21:21 PM
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| Good idea== I think the Reds should bring back Pete Rose and the Bengals should bring back Boomer |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 3:34:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dbc
Good idea== I think the Reds should bring back Pete Rose and the Bengals should bring back Boomer
Like I said-if not in skating shape then not an option. Look at the job Don
Biggs did on his second return. Not nearly the player of old but a solid
leader for the team. Barrett (if in playing shape) could also retire at
the end of the year in the way most fans would like to see him leave-as
a player of his own choice. We're also not talking a player removed from the
game 10 and 20 years like you bring up.
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Edited by - bags on 12/08/2013 3:36:34 PM |
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King Of The Monkeys
(Finally Got A Star!)
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 5:41:40 PM
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This idea had crossed my mind earlier this year but I didn't do anything with it because I know nothing about the shape Ehgoetz is in or what kind of relationship exists between him and Cyclones management.
However it is something fun to speculate about.
After such a long layoff, I wonder if it easier to get into 'game shape' for a physical player or a finesse player?
Bags - if you were in the position to make this happen, how would you clear a roster spot for him? |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 6:22:19 PM
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Thanks KOM for at least the thought. The job of the ECHL is to improve
players to the point they can move up to the AHL. Same the AHL to move
them to the NHL. We have the problem of trying to "teach" two AHL team's
prospects the game of hockey. At some point a position for a prospect
might have to be sacrificed to get an "on-ice" coach on the ice. A team
like Las Vegas is non-affiliated. Possibly one prospect is sent to Las
Vegas where he can get more playing time while Barrett takes his spot
to help the remaining players as a "player-coach" ! |
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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 7:08:49 PM
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| Doesn't a player like Paul Crowder fill that role? He's 28 years old, spent significant time in the AHL, wears the A and is nearly a point per game player at this level. When you consider all those qualities, he sounds very similar to a guy like Aubin. Perhaps that kind of role is why the Cyclones signed Crowder - veteran presence and leadership. |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2013 : 7:41:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by King Of The Monkeys
This idea had crossed my mind earlier this year but I didn't do anything with it because I know nothing about the shape Ehgoetz is in or what kind of relationship exists between him and Cyclones management.
However it is something fun to speculate about.
After such a long layoff, I wonder if it easier to get into 'game shape' for a physical player or a finesse player?
Bags - if you were in the position to make this happen, how would you clear a roster spot for him?
Ehgoetz career is over. Turn the page! |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 09:14:17 AM
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The Cyclones didn't sign Crowder, he's under contract with Milwaulkee. This year Cyclones management find themselves in a bind due to all the affiliated players sent down. The Cyclones only have 7, 8 if you count Madore, unafiliated players. Here's the list, it's not long so remember it, heck write it down even:
Eves
Birkholz
Wysopal
Corbin
Daniels
Reed
MacDonald
Madore
I've said time and time again the 'Clones are getting hampered with so many affiliated players, but unfortunately it's a fact of life for us and (possibly) in the future. It's a double edge sword, if those players play to expectation the Cyclones end up pretty stacked and even in the event of performance based promotion the 'Clones would usually get a guy back since the AHL team often has to make roster room. However, if the affiliates get hammered with injuries the 'Clones are basically SOL. It also, makes it hard to recruit quality ECHL level guys since they know that there may not be a roster spot for them once the season starts.
Ideally we'd want 3 or 4 guys max from the affiliates that way you can build a team with a quality ECHL level core to keep things stable if/when call-ups occur. However, as long as the 'Clones remain affiliated with NSH and FLA odds are we'll see rosters very similar to this years. Both parent clubs a small market teams which have to draft deep and build from within, that means there's a lot of prospects at the AHL and ECHL levels. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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PsychFan
(Finally Got A Star!)
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 3:18:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by elvis77
The Cyclones didn't sign Crowder, he's under contract with Milwaulkee. This year Cyclones management find themselves in a bind due to all the affiliated players sent down. The Cyclones only have 7, 8 if you count Madore, unafiliated players. Here's the list, it's not long so remember it, heck write it down even:
Eves
Birkholz
Wysopal
Corbin
Daniels
Reed
MacDonald
Madore
I've said time and time again the 'Clones are getting hampered with so many affiliated players, but unfortunately it's a fact of life for us and (possibly) in the future. It's a double edge sword, if those players play to expectation the Cyclones end up pretty stacked and even in the event of performance based promotion the 'Clones would usually get a guy back since the AHL team often has to make roster room. However, if the affiliates get hammered with injuries the 'Clones are basically SOL. It also, makes it hard to recruit quality ECHL level guys since they know that there may not be a roster spot for them once the season starts.
Ideally we'd want 3 or 4 guys max from the affiliates that way you can build a team with a quality ECHL level core to keep things stable if/when call-ups occur. However, as long as the 'Clones remain affiliated with NSH and FLA odds are we'll see rosters very similar to this years. Both parent clubs a small market teams which have to draft deep and build from within, that means there's a lot of prospects at the AHL and ECHL levels.
Where on the roster would you put said "veteran leader?" Last I checked, we're at the maximum of active players. Plus, including guys in the AHL, we've got 16 guys on AHL/NHL contracts. Can't just cut them to make room for your "veteran leader."
And please, let's all get off the Ehgoetz train. Like dbf said, why don't we ask the Reds to bring back Pete? Living in the past much?
And, let's also discuss who's out there that we could actually sign - provided we had the room, which we don't. Any names come to mind? Haven't seen any suggestions by anyone on this forum.
Uggg |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 4:54:44 PM
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I agree completely Psychfan, as my post illustrates there's no room.
For the record, doesn't Dan Eves fill that role? Not counting his games played this season, he's logged 277 ECHL games, he's played every position asked of him, helps his teammates perform better through his play, and has a positive presence in the community. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 5:52:54 PM
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I would rather have a team made up mostly or entirely of affiliated players who someone with the required knowledge has judged as at least having the skills to possibly advance to the next level than players whom 30 NHL/AHL teams have passed on. You want to watch primarily or exclusively non affiliated players Elvis, you can drive up to Dayton or go to a CHL game.
You really want to watch a team with less quality players just because the better players might get called up? If you lived in Louisville would you not go to their baseball games because the best players would get called up to the Reds in case of an injury?? Makes no sense to me. Give me the high and lows of call ups rather than the steady mediocrity of non affiliated players. If we had an AHL team would you rather them have less quality players because the good players might be called up?? I am a hockey fan and want to watch the best players I can. |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 6:39:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dbc
I would rather have a team made up mostly or entirely of affiliated players who someone with the required knowledge has judged as at least having the skills to possibly advance to the next level than players whom 30 NHL/AHL teams have passed on. You want to watch primarily or exclusively non affiliated players Elvis, you can drive up to Dayton or go to a CHL game.
You really want to watch a team with less quality players just because the better players might get called up?
Fort Wayne has basically decided to go with the model of not having players who are good enough to get called up to the AHL......and they're probably looking at a .500 team with borderline playoff potential as a result. But, at least they'll get to see the same players all season
Alaska has had a great deal of success going mainly independent, but it's a quirky situation. They seem to be able to attract a lot of the top Alaska-born non affiliated talent and have been rumored to play it a little on the loose side with respect to the spirit of the salary cap.
The big problem with going "too" non affiliated is that your best non affiliated players are subject to call up from ALL of the AHL instead of just the one affiliated team. Players like Reed and possibly MacDonald will be almost non stop ping ponging between here and the AHL once injuries start taking their toll. Also, these guys might have the talent to stick with one of their call up teams.
That's why guys like Embach, Aubin and Pelech are so valuable. Good enough to excel in the ECHL, but not good enough to stick in the AHL beyond an injury call up. Problem is, that it's very difficult to sign enough of these type of players to stock a competitive ECHL team. Within the context of affiliation, however, players like these three are quite valuable.
The dual affiliate model has worked pretty well for the Cyclones. Don't see any reason to make any major changes to it. It's got its ups and downs and can bring the entire team down when a lousy goalie is assigned, but with exception of Alaska, strong affiliation is how one wins championships in the ECHL. |
Edited by - danc on 12/09/2013 6:49:02 PM |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 8:35:24 PM
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"That's why guys like Embach, Aubin and Pelech are so valuable. Good enough to excel in the ECHL, but not good enough to stick in the AHL beyond an injury call up. Problem is, that it's very difficult to sign enough of these type of players to stock a competitive ECHL team. Within the context of affiliation, however, players like these three are quite valuable."
This is my point exactly. It's not that I don't want to see guys with AHL potential but there needs to be room for guys of Embach, Pelech, Aubin caliber. Right now with the depth of the affliates there's only room for 7 non-affiliated skaters. Having so few spots for non-affiliated players makes it difficult to recruit quality free agent players.
It's only been the last two years the Cyclones have seen so many affiliated players. Prior to last season the 'Clones played with roughly 3 or 4 players from each affiliate. If that's what the 'Clones had this year there's room on the roster for Mike Embach, Kyle Bodie, and even Aubin and Pelech (provided the could have avoided their off ice idiocy).
I'm in no way saying that the 2 affiliate model needs to be eliminated; each cup run benefited greatly from affiliated players. If you go and look at those teams though, you'll see there were more free agent players than affiliated players. The last 2 seasons that model has been flipped. If guys stay healthy and you can keep a core together great, but if not it difficult for the team to find any cohesion.
The Cyclones have a slew of players from FLA/SA; what happens when FLA decides that they want to clean house come the trade deadline and these guys get traded or get called up to fill the AHL slots of guys who were traded so FLA could have more draft picks? The 'Clones roster gets gutted. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2013 : 9:31:21 PM
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okay like I said, only if he is still in skating shape. I think most
people were happy to see Don Biggs leave the Cyclones the way he did
the second time as compared to the first. Maybe I just would like
Barrett to leave as a skater and not as a not wanted player.
Thanks Elvis for the list of non affiliated players. With the play of
Madore, some AHL team will snag him by the end of the season if not sooner.
As for those who bring up Pete Rose, Barrett played in 2011 so it's not like
I'm asking Don Biggs or Paul Lawless to suit up. Don't act so silly.
Just don't see anyone stepping up and taking charge yet. |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 09:16:34 AM
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When the Cyclones chose to let Eghoetz go, no other team in the ECHL wanted him for his leadership skills or as a hockey player. Same went for Biggs after the 1998-99 season when the best offer he could get from IHL teams was an invitation from a couple of teams to attend training camp on a tryout basis and no offers from anyone in the AHL. There comes a time when you have to make room for younger and better players.
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www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
Edited by - Donnie Hockey on 12/10/2013 09:22:34 AM |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2013 : 4:32:44 PM
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"Right now with the depth of the affliates there's only room for 7 non-affiliated skaters. Having so few spots for non-affiliated players makes it difficult to recruit quality free agent players"
That is plenty of room and if they wanted to have the three players in question on the roster they would have. The fact they are not here has nothing to do with them "only" having seven non affiliated roster spots. Once again, I would rather have another affiliated player to watch than the eighth best non affiliated player you could sign. You want more senior leader types? Nothing to keep you from filling the seven roster spots with them. You don't need to reduce affiliated players to do so.
Lets assume though the Cyclones want to have less affiliated players for whatever reason. So how do you then tell the NHL/AHL teams that you really want to be affiliated with them along with the $$ that entails but you are going to limit the number of players you will accept? That also means the players they do assign will be playing with less talented players then they would otherwise. Really think they would accept that demand?? Try dictating to your boss what the terms of your relationship will be.
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