| Author |
 Topic  |
|
taoistlumberjak
(The Next Level!)
133 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2010 : 3:20:04 PM
|
I think this is a valid and reasonable topic of conversation. Why couldn't the little Ducks stick around in the city?
Meanwhile, the ECHL Cincinnati Cyclones have only one less season played under their belt, and one more championship. But then again, I guess it's easy to outscore a team that had zero championships. Heck, the Cyclones are averaging more playoff series wins a year than the Not-so-Might Sucks had in their entire career. |
|
|
Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2010 : 3:36:14 PM
|
The Mighty Ducks played for eight consecutive seasons in Cincinnati. The franchise would have continued on for a ninth season but was not able to due to not being able to secure an NHL affiliation for the 2005-06 season after Anaheim accepted a more lucrative deal in Portland. Had Colorado and Edmonton chose and/or been in position to field a full team rather than go into dual arrangements, the former Mighty Ducks franchise would have continued. But because there were not any affiliation options available, the franchise at the Gardens was left with no choice but to suspend operations for the 2005-06 season. They tried to obtain an affiliation for the 2006-07 season, and could have had one, but waited too long trying to hit the magic 2,000 number in season ticket deposits before telling the teams that were interested they were ready to to a deal. One of the teams interested was an Original Six team. It would have been a good match.
|
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
 |
|
|
somebeach
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1224 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2010 : 11:07:53 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
One of the teams interested was an Original Six team. It would have been a good match.
Chicago Blackhawks, if I'm not mistaken. |
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
ZINGER!!!!! |
|
|
|
Hockey Traveller
(The Next Level!)
134 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 11:38:47 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by taoistlumberjak
I think this is a valid and reasonable topic of conversation. Why couldn't the little Ducks stick around in the city?
Meanwhile, the ECHL Cincinnati Cyclones have only one less season played under their belt, and one more championship. But then again, I guess it's easy to outscore a team that had zero championships. Heck, the Cyclones are averaging more playoff series wins a year than the Not-so-Might Sucks had in their entire career.
If you are truly interested in the answer to your question, it has nothing to do with which team has won more games, championships, playoff series, or how many people can bash them.
When it is said that "this isn't a hockey town", it means that most people don't care whether or not the team wins or loses. When there is a crowd of more than 100 people at a pro hockey game in this city, the majority of people didn't go to the game based on whether or not they think or care about a team winning. The majority of people at a pro hockey game in this city couldn't even name one player on the home team before they got in the building.
So it is only a valid and reasonable topic of conversation if you take all the idiotic bias out of it. Otherwise it is just a pissing contest and one-up argument. |
|
|
|
ClonesFanNKY
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 8:23:45 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
The Mighty Ducks played for eight consecutive seasons in Cincinnati. The franchise would have continued on for a ninth season but was not able to due to not being able to secure an NHL affiliation for the 2005-06 season after Anaheim accepted a more lucrative deal in Portland. Had Colorado and Edmonton chose and/or been in position to field a full team rather than go into dual arrangements, the former Mighty Ducks franchise would have continued. But because there were not any affiliation options available, the franchise at the Gardens was left with no choice but to suspend operations for the 2005-06 season. They tried to obtain an affiliation for the 2006-07 season, and could have had one, but waited too long trying to hit the magic 2,000 number in season ticket deposits before telling the teams that were interested they were ready to to a deal. One of the teams interested was an Original Six team. It would have been a good match.
they wanted 2000 STH and had what 1500+ put down some kind of depost? why not go with the 1500 and count on good walk ups? if you have a good marketing deparment, you can have a great walk up number. If you say "well the 2000 was garuntee money to cover travel cost, SO we want 2000 STH" But who said all ove the 2000 would go threw with it? what if 500 of them change their minds after they put down their $25 depost but the owners gave it the go. Now they are still short 500 STH and what would they do? call the NHL team a month or so before the season saying "Since 500ppl backed out it's a no go" I dont think so they would have ran with the 1500 and counted on walk ups or more ppl jumping on board when the season got started.Right? |
Bring the Pain |
|
|
|
Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2010 : 8:54:55 PM
|
| The Gardens took into account about 300 to 500 might back out, which is why they wanted to see 2,000 on the board before they moved forward. They knew they'd get those 300 to 500 back over the summer months, but the problem was, after they got within less than 400 of the 2,000 goal there weren't any available NHL options left. They should have struck a deal before Christmas when they had around 800 deposits and not announced the deal until 2,000 deposits had been secured. The way it was tracking after Christmas, and the interest level that was building, had they done that they would have began the season with about 2,300 full season ticket equivilents. The deposits they were sitting on when they moved forward did not include corporate sponsors that had indicated they would be on board with the RailRaiders. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
|
|
|
New York Stranger
(Rookie)
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 06:02:04 AM
|
| how was attendance at ducks games? good, poor, average? i'm curious, because i'd never heard of there being two minor league hockey teams in one city before. granted, i've only lived here ten years, but still... |
Unbleeding
http://unbleeding.blogspot.com
Cincinnati-based webzine about music, art, politics, religion, etc |
|
|
|
Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 10:31:25 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by New York Stranger
how was attendance at ducks games? good, poor, average? i'm curious, because i'd never heard of there being two minor league hockey teams in one city before. granted, i've only lived here ten years, but still...
The Ducks average attendance over their 320 regular-season games at Cincinnati Gardens from 1997-2005 was around 5,000 a game. There were two teams for their first seven seasons, a situation that should never have been allowed to happen. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
|
|
|
New York Stranger
(Rookie)
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 3:13:56 PM
|
| wow, that's rather impressive... |
Unbleeding
http://unbleeding.blogspot.com
Cincinnati-based webzine about music, art, politics, religion, etc |
|
|
|
elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 7:04:23 PM
|
Donnie, Is that 5000 the actual gate or a "tickets out" count? I'm not asking to drudge anything up, I'm just curious. When I was at UC Ducks people would come down to bars near campus on hand out loads of tickets. I attended just a handful for Ducks games in their existence so my sample size isn't practical and I don't remember what the announced attendances were but I don't recall the attendances looking that large. It was a long time ago though.
I think we can all agree on the last point, 2 minor league teams in one market should have never happened. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
|
|
|
Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 8:06:54 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by elvis77
Donnie, Is that 5000 the actual gate or a "tickets out" count? I'm not asking to drudge anything up, I'm just curious. When I was at UC Ducks people would come down to bars near campus on hand out loads of tickets. I attended just a handful for Ducks games in their existence so my sample size isn't practical and I don't remember what the announced attendances were but I don't recall the attendances looking that large. It was a long time ago though.
I think we can all agree on the last point, 2 minor league teams in one market should have never happened.
The announced attendance was based on turnstyle count. There were games the Ducks had 7,000 and games they had 2,200. But they had a favorable home schedule, with more than 30 of the games on a Friday or Saturday, so at the end of the season they were able to hover around the 5,000 mark.
The Ducks, like every team, had an allotment of tickets they would use for promotional giveways on radio stations, at bars, malls, restaurants, player appearances, etc. It was a minimal amount.
If you knew where to go you could get "free" tickets, but while those tickets may have been free to the people getting them, the business that had them paid for them as part of a sponsorship package. You can get "free" Cyclones tickets, too, if you know people at the business' that have them.
While two teams in the same market should never have happened, what Cyclones fans overlook is the current Cyclones franchise came into the market when there was already an existing team in the summer of 2001. When the IHL Cyclones folded, it was a few weeks before David LeFebvre struck a deal with USBA to bring his dormant Miami Matadors franchise to Cincinnati. Cyclones fans had no problem with a second team coming into the market then, did they? :)
|
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
|
|
|
hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 8:16:53 PM
|
Ducks tickets were given away freely.
Scalpers used to have handfulls of "comps" almost every game. Anyone who came in from the "mud pit" parking lot encountered them.
Attendance numbers at the Ducks games were greatly inflated. I was in the building on numerous occasions where crowds were announced in the 6,000 range and the building was far less than half full (the building seats about 10,000 for hockey).
Weekday crowds were generally sub 1000-much like the Cyclones were in the pre-ticket drop days.
I attended at least 20 games per year for all 8 years of the team's existence. I generally was given a free ticket outside or had to pay in the $3-5 range. It's no secret why the Ducks folded. They had poor crowds and very low ticket revenue due to excessive comping and discounting.
The current Cyclone management is the first group of managers which have really "grown" their base. Every other post Stinger hockey franchise has watched its attendance diminish over time. |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
|
Edited by - hrc666 on 03/06/2010 8:23:53 PM |
|
|
|
BP2011
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
531 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 9:03:03 PM
|
| All I know is the Mighty Ducks never drew the fans as the Cyclones did at the Gardens, almost always 7,500-10,000 people from 1990-1997 for the Cyclones average, Mighty Ducks in the range of 4,300-5,500 from 1997-2004 on the average. Why the difference I dont know nor do I care but its a fact. The 3 years for the current Cyclones from 2001-2004 had 2 acceptable years of 3,000+, but then the last year the bottom fell out, thats a fact. Even though we had two teams for 7 years all but the last wasnt too bad in terms of attendance for the respective teams in terms of their leagues, I dont think saying the Ducks folded is fair, the owner Walt Disney gave up ownership and with that the new owners moved the team, thats business and it happens in life, attendance probably wasnt the best but an AHL team is controlled more by the parent team then an ECHL team (unless your the Lowell and Trenton Devils and New Jersey keeps you alive) |
08, 10 Kelly Cup Champions
08, 10, 14 American Conference Champions
08, 09, 13 North Division Champions
08 Brabham Cup Champions |
|
|
|
Cyclonesdiehard
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 9:07:33 PM
|
| I never paid for a Ducks tickets, and I probably went to 10 games in their total existence. I remember receiving free ones when I was at UC that had a zero where a price would have been. Never actually sat in the seat assigned always sat 2-3 rows up from the ice. |
http://cyclonesopinionpage.blogspot.com/ |
|
|
|
elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 11:43:29 PM
|
| I'm sorry my question turned this thread into this. Thanks for your response to my initial question DH. The Ducks games I attended seemed to be around 2700+/-. But if they were packing 7000+ in there on many of the weekends, I can see 5000 as possible. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
|
|
|
Hockey Traveller
(The Next Level!)
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 12:39:01 AM
|
I was a season ticket holder for the Ducks every year of their existence, and a Cyclones season ticket holder up until the IHL folded. During the IHL Cyclones years, any time there was a schedule conflict between the two teams, I chose the Cyclones, so I didn't go to ALL the Ducks games from 1997-2001. But for the most part I was there for all the other games during that period, and all but a few games from 2001-2005. I don't recall any games where I thought the crowd was under 1000. I admit there were times when I saw the announced attendance and thought it might have been a little high, but not in the proportions that hrc claims. But I do agree with hrc that there were MANY tickets available outside the Gardens from scalpers who would take $3-5 for tickets that had $0.00 as the price.
That being said, I was just like every other fan, including hrc, both then and now, of Ducks OR Cyclones, who never saw a ticket revenue statement, never counted gate receipts or ticket stubs, never worked in the Ducks administrative offices, never heard or saw deals struck with local businesses for comp tickets to be distributed, and never cared enough to go downtown and research the public records to see what the team paid in Admissions Tax. To my knowledge, DH is the only one on this message board who was privy to any or all of that. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
