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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2012 : 9:46:01 PM
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TOLEDO, Ohio – – The Cincinnati Cyclones (22-16-0-6) fell behind 4-1 and were unable to mount the comeback as the Toledo Walleye (21-23-2-2) held onto a 4-3 win in front of 7,490 at Huntington Center on Saturday night.
The Walleye raced out to a 2-0 lead as Kyle Rogers and Paul Zanette each buried goals past Cyclones net minder Chet Pickard (ND, 11 saves, 9-10-0-1) in the first 10:51 of the game. Cyclones forward Dan Eves temporarily cut the Toledo lead in half by potting a goal for the sixth straight game at 17:39, making it 2-1. However, on a Walleye power play, David Toews tipped home Kyle Page’s point shot at the 18:31 mark to give his team a 3-1 edge after 20 minutes.
Toledo extended their advantage to 4-1 at the 6:54 mark in questionable fashion; after a Joey Martin shot had apparently rung off the crossbar and was waved off by the referee, they reviewed the play and chose to overturn the call and give him the tally. Cincinnati answered back a few minutes later, at 11:52, as Mathieu Aubin fed Justin Vaive through the slot and slid in his fifth goal of the season to once again cut the Walleye lead in half at 4-2. In the final few minutes of the middle frame, the Cyclones were given a five-on-three power play but were unable to beat Toledo goaltender Alec Richards (W, 22 saves, 3-0-0); so at the end of two periods, the hometown Walleye held a 4-2 cushion.
Late in the third period, Cincinnati pulled within a goal when Taylor Aronson sent a point blast through Richards at 15:45. Then with just over a minute to play, Toledo’s Joey Ryan was given a boarding penalty – giving the Cyclones a late chance with the man-advantage. Unfortunately, they once again came up empty as the Walleye snuffed out a would-be rally and held onto a 4-3 win.
The Cyclones Radio Network Three Stars of the Game are as follows:
First Star: Kyle Rogers (1 goal, 1 assist for Toledo)
Second Star: Alec Richards (22 saves for Toledo)
Third Star: Joey Martin (1 goal, 1 assist for Toledo)
The same two teams will battle at Huntington Center tomorrow afternoon at 4:00pm. Fans can hear all of the action on the Cyclones Radio Network (1160-AM, America One) beginning at 3:45pm.
The Cyclones will return to U.S. Bank Arena next Thursday, February 16 when they welcome in the Elmira Jackals for the only time in 2011-12 at 7:30pm. It will be another Thirsty Thursday, with $1 PBR and Miller High Life flowing all night long. Plus, fans are encouraged to wear red apparel for the first-ever Cyclones Red Out! Secure your seats now by calling 513.421.PUCK or log on to CyclonesHockey.com. Fans can also get the latest team updates throughout the season on Facebook and Twitter (@CincyCyclones).
http://www.cycloneshockey.com/news/594/cyclones-rally-spoiled-by-walleye-4-3/
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 12:01:57 AM
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| Unless Milwaukee is insisting that the Cyclones play Chet, there is absolutely no reason--nada- he should be playing. Three goals again tonight in the first period after 2 last night and three his game before that. .The last six games--all one goal games, Chet has a GAA of 6.5 and a save percent of .771 !!!! Fogel has a GAA of 2.15 and a save percent of .921 during the same 6 game stretch !!!!. This is not fair to the rest of the team who has been forced to win through miracle comebacks when Chet starts. He looks lost, is fighting the puck, and has no confidence. If Milwaukee still thinks he has a future, please recall him and work with him there, don't throw games away here and deflate the team chemistry any more than his presence already has. |
Edited by - dbc on 02/12/2012 12:03:45 AM |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 02:55:51 AM
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@dbc - I wasn't at the game tonight so I can't speak for whether the goals were Chet's fault of not but I will go as far as to say, the way the team plays in front of Fogal and the way they play in front of Chet are completely different. When Fogal is net I don't see guys skating off the wall and out of the corners to prime scoring areas and players and sticks are checked in front of the net and down the slot. Both of these things happen with regularity in front of Chet. I don't want to take all the blame from Chet because there are goals that he should have stopped, nor do I want to take credit away from Fogal, but he's not the "savior" the Foster was last season.
Here's something to keep in mind, prior to this weekends games there was little difference statistically between the two. The difference in SV% was just .013 and the difference in GAA was just .25.
A goaltenders success has as much to do with the play of the guys in front as it does their own. Did Tim Thomas get that much better last ear in comparison to previous years when Boston collapsed terrible in the playoffs? Nope, he played the same aggressive style that saw wildly out of position frequently but the Bruins learned how to play defense with an aggressive goalie.
All that being said, if, for whatever reason, the team plays harder and better in front of Fogal then Fogal should get the starts. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 04:48:23 AM
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Sorry Elvis I don't buy it. A .771 GAA means a goal given up every 4.5 shots over the last three games and he has been pulled in two of them! But lets look at the whole year and the year and a half since he has been here.
His GAA for the year is about half a goal higher than Fogel ( who by the way was given the loss last night because of the awful rule that he gave up what proved to be the winning goal) and about 3/4 of a goal higher than Brian Foster. Over a 70 game schedule this translates to giving up 35 more goals than Fogel and 52 goals more than Foster!!. The .881 save percent is last in the league--the league including the goalies for Trenton and Bakersfield
My biggest frustration however is that this is not new. This has been going on with him for a year and a half!! As bad as this year is, his year long stats of .881/3.24 is actually a hair better than the .877/3.39 from last year!! The last three games only show me he has gone from being bad to having fallen apart. Since the beginning of last year the Cyclones have had a winning percent of .543. With Chet in goal and the goalie of record in 40% of the games,, that percent is .434 which only Trenton and Bakersfield are worse than this year. That means that with ALL other Cyclone goalies playing over the past year and a half with ALL the different defensemen, the winning percent is .614 putting us near the top of the conference. Over a 70 game schedule, this translates to having either 86 points or 61 points or a 40% increase in performance with all the other goalies in net over Chet over 1.5 years--not three games--a year and a half!!! |
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Catch22
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
676 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 10:16:00 AM
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He's a 1st round draft pick with a contract.
This is a developmental league.
You are stuck with him until his contract is up or the big club decides to cut their losses, and thats the price you pay for $12 tickets for a pro hockey game. It really is that simple.
I honestly feel bad for Chet. He had a really bright future in the sport and something clearly happened that caused him to lose his game. I truly hope that he is working on or has already gotten his college degree. I just can't see him being able to stay in hockey with the numbers he is putting up and for the 2nd year in a row having had a lesser regarded goalie come in and be more successful behind the same skaters.
And yes, teams do skate and play differently based on the confidence (or lack of) in the guy in net. They are a potential cup contender with Foster in net and fighting for the last playoff spot with Chet, and everybody knows it.
We've cheered hard for Chet for a season and a half, and he has sometimes shown flashes of why he was so highly regarded in the draft. But now we've reached the point of when he is announced as the starter there is a collective groan.
I hope he figures it out before the end of this season, but I'm not holding my breath. IF this team is going to have any chance at a playoff run it'll be via having Foster sent back or Fogal playing out of his mind. Chet isn't the guy. At least not right now.
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Yes, I grew up playing hockey... In Alabama. |
Edited by - Catch22 on 02/12/2012 10:25:47 AM |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 11:35:58 AM
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Well aware of his draft history and my stated hope in the posting was that he go to Milwaukee to work things out there in practice rather in in games here.
Sorry but I don't see the defensive system or the way it is played change when Chet is in goal. Same system, same people for a year and a half yet the team wins 40% more points when he is not playing. That is the bottom line. The numbers show that with him they have one of the worst records in the league and without him one of the best.
If there is a difference in the way they play in front of him it is one caused by lack of confidence in him by the players, but if that was the case they would be more defensive minded and conservative and not as quick to break out etc which theoretically should make his numbers better than they would be if they played the same way they do for the other goalies.
We all know this a development league and that these kids sacrifice a lot to chase their dreams, but he has had more than ample time to fix his game and his play has to be demoralizing to the team. As I said originally, unless Milwaukee is insisting he play he shouldnt be in there, and if they are concerned about helping him, this is not the place to do it in crucial games.
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 12:53:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dbc
If there is a difference in the way they play in front of him it is one caused by lack of confidence in him by the players, but if that was the case they would be more defensive minded and conservative and not as quick to break out etc which theoretically should make his numbers better than they would be if they played the same way they do for the other goalies.
This is how it would appear and your right in one case, there is a trust issue involved. But, it goes both ways. A goalie has to trust the defense to not let certain things happen. A defense has to trust the goalie when mistakes get made. When that trust gets broken it spirals out of control.
Need an example, look 2hrs North of Cincinnati at the Blue Jackets. Same players and same system but the team has clearly played better in front of Curtis Sanford than Steve Mason. Which is the better goaltender? I'd argue Steve Mason is physically the better of the 2 but since the team has more faith in Sanford, he gives them a better chance to win.
One would think the lack of trust in the goalie would drop a team into a defensive shell to shut everything down and it might to a point but it also makes them press and "tighten up." It causes more mistakes to be made. It's not unlike a scorer who goes into a slump. He starts to doubt, squeeze the stick a little too hard and the goals don't come. Once he relaxes he starts scoring again. When a goalie can't trust the D to do certain things and they don't happen he ends up looking as lost an an epileptic with tourettes.
If you really don't think the team plays differently in front of Chet than Fogal then you must not have been at the 7-6 comeback win over Toledo. Even Dan Eves said he felt bad for Chet becuase it was their play that got him pulled.
It goes both ways and just because the red light goes on doesn't mean it's always the goalies fault.
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"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 3:39:19 PM
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Good--you go with a goalie with his horrible stats for a year and a half and who you don't think trusts his defense and correctly blames them for his horrible record, and I will go with all the other goalies and their strongly better stats who play with the same defense and evidently like the way they play in front of them. We disagree but good luck with Chet as your goalie
The real issue though is not who is correct here but how to correct the situation on the ice that have produced such a wide difference in results. If you are right in your assessment of blame and the lack of trust Chet has in his defense, please tell me how you would correct it? Get rid of all the defensemen? change the whole scheme which works well for the other goaies? change the coach? If i am right and the problem is Chet and his lack of confidence in himself, I sit him down, have him open and close the bench door, and don't play him except when directed to and, for his sake, hope they will recall him to work with him there rather than having him sit on my bench. |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2012 : 6:58:42 PM
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Please read the last line of my first comment. Thank you.
My point is it's not always the goalies fault. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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fangers
(The Next Level!)
USA
262 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2012 : 08:09:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by elvis77
Please read the last line of my first comment. Thank you.
My point is it's not always the goalies fault.
While I'll be the first to agree it's not always the goalies fault, just as it's not always the goalie who deserves all the credit for a win, his body of work in Cincy & Milwaukee after the past couple seasons speaks for itself. It's an obvious trend that can't be dismissed as anything other than the goalie himself, as there have simply been too many different players who have played with him for it to all be their fault.
And it shouldn't be a surprise that players will play that little bit harder for some goalies than they will for others, and it usually boils down to the respect and confidence that those players have for him. In some cases it may be that it's a young goalie like Fogal and the guys realize they need to step it up in front of him. In rare cases players have so much confidence in a goalie they play more aggressive offensively they leave him on an island at times.
His problem is 99% between his ears. |
Edited by - fangers on 02/14/2012 08:11:48 AM |
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n/a
deleted
149 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2012 : 9:25:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dbc
With Chet in goal and the goalie of record in 40% of the games,, that percent is .434 which only Trenton and Bakersfield are worse than this year. That means that with ALL other Cyclone goalies playing over the past year and a half with ALL the different defensemen, the winning percent is .614 putting us near the top of the conference. Over a 70 game schedule, this translates to having either 86 points or 61 points or a 40% increase in performance with all the other goalies in net over Chet over 1.5 years--not three games--a year and a half!!!
Wow! He's much worse than I thought and I knew that he was real bad. A 25 point difference over a full season between his record and all other goalies can't be blamed on anything but his lack of performance.
Chet Stinks.
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