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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2014 : 8:12:00 PM
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In light of yesterday's news that the San Francisco Bull may fold or move as soon as this week, I did a bit of research for some perspective. The article indicated that the Bull are losing $2,000,000 per season. I'd also heard that their ticket prices are somewhat cost prohibitive for AA hockey, so I looked them up. Equivalent seats that I have for the Cyclone (behind the visitors' bench, several rows up) are $43.50 each per game in SF. That alone may be the reason for their woes. Anyone with any business sense would know that a marketplace can't sustain that pricing structure. So, with that in mind, we should feel pretty fortunate about Cyclone ticket prices.
Thank you, Mr. Harris!
The SF Chronicle article is below.
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/S-F-Bulls-hockey-team-could-fold-or-move-soon-5160054.php |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2014 : 8:41:05 PM
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I agree about the Cyclones Reggie. We are spoiled with the pricing.
On the Bulls, their attendance this year is down to about 2200 per game from about 4200 last year which when combined with the fact they share the gate and concessions with the Cow Palace makes the financials awfully tough. Biggest plus we have is that we have common ownership between the building and the team
I think the owners made the same mistake that the Chicago Wolves owners made in that they thought they would go to a hot bed of NHL hockey and take the spill over of fans who can not afford NHL tickets. Problem is, would you rather watch the Sharks on TV or go to a SF Bulls game? Add in the fact that the Cow Palace is not not that easy to get to, parking is high, and BART does not have a nearby station within walking distance like there is in Oakland.
IN SF you also have the problem of lots of other choices for non hockey die hard family entertainment that we dont have--especially in the winter. Kids out there wear Sharks jerseys. Not sure I have ever seen a local Cincinnati kid wearing a Blue Jackets jersey.
If they fold and LV does also it could be a tough go for the Western Conference but it looks like the Wrangler ownership has some options.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2014/jan/19/wranglers-weighing-three-options-new-home-2014-15/ |
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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2014 : 9:08:01 PM
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DBC, you're very right about the shared ownership. That is a huge benefit to the Cyclone and their fans. If not for that, we'd see substantially higher ticket prices.
For more perspective, I'm attending a SPHL game next week in Knoxville and the Ice Bear tickets are about 30% more than a commensurate Cyclone ticket.
As for the SF situation, I don't know how you could ever recover $4 million in losses at the minor league level. Virtually impossible.
It sounds like the LV and SF situations could be resolved Wednesday at the ECHL meetings in Philadelphia. I hope both clubs can be preserved. |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2014 : 9:09:11 PM
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| The Cyclones provide a good value for the entertainment/sports fan. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2014 : 4:48:21 PM
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It's a very difficult task to try to make an AA team work in an area with NHL competition. Chicago has been a failure twice (UHL Chicago Hounds and ECHL Chicago Express). Both teams lasted one year before folding. Denver has a CHL team in its second year that is drawing less than 2000 and the market had another CHL team (The Rocky Mountain Rage) fail after a few years of operation in the Denver area. The CHL St. Charles Chill (St. Louis area) are drawing about 1,000 per game.
The only two AA hockey teams which have survived longer term in a market where the NHL is (was) have been the CHL Allen Americans (Dallas) and the ECHL Gwinnett Gladiators (Atlanta). So, while it's not impossible to make a go of it in these huge cities, it sure isn't easy.
On ticket prices....It would be interesting to see what each ECHL team's ticket revenues really are. While a lot of places have much higher ticket prices than the Cyclones, there is a lot of discounting and the level of comped tickets could be very high as well. Also, announced attendance levels with most teams are inflated.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Cyclones were in the top 5 or 6 teams in the league in actual total ticket revenue. While Toledo, Colorado and Fort Wayne surely create more total ticket revenue than the Cyclones do-and probably Ontario-it's not entirely clear whether other teams do.
The Cyclones have been able to determine a proper pricing point for their product. I'm not so sure teams with high face prices who have much lower revenue per ticket than their prices would indicate have found the proper point. The Cyclones optimal pricing point would probably be lower than most team's due to the concession portion of the equation.
I'd be interested in seeing what people think that the average person spends on concessions at a Cyclones game. I would think that it would be at least $5, but I could be way off...probably low.
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Edited by - danc on 01/22/2014 4:52:20 PM |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2014 : 8:36:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by danc
The Cyclones have been able to determine a proper pricing point for their product. I'm not so sure teams with high face prices who have much lower revenue per ticket than their prices would indicate have found the proper point. The Cyclones optimal pricing point would probably be lower than most team's due to the concession portion of the equation.
The Cyclones being owned and operated by the owner of US Bank Arena allows them to keep ticket prices low. If the team was owned by someone else, they would struggle to survive playing at US Bank Arena with the current ticket pricing structure unless the arena gave them a really favorable lease.
With several nearby teams, including Indianapolis next season, the Cyclones are also able to keep their travel costs down. Travel costs are one of the biggest financial burdens teams face at the minor pro level. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2014 : 06:12:08 AM
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Same problem with the IHL is now with the ECHL. When minor league
sports turn from a bus league to a plane league, the costs get out
of hand. Although it's not cheap to hotel teams, compared to flight
costs it's a better tradeoff. ECHL needs to make all team visits at
least two back to back games as often as possible. |
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Cyclonesdiehard
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 11:56:14 AM
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| That's good news for the Bull. However, what kind of new ownership can you find when your books are bleeding red ink upwards of $4,000,000? The best chance would be to find a very wealthy person who wants to own the team as a hobby and doesn't mind operating at a loss. |
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tjpavlik
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 6:04:32 PM
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| Perhaps a group of senior citizens in Florida.... |
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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 6:24:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tjpavlik
Perhaps a group of senior citizens in Florida....
Quality!!! |
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Spud
(Rookie)
20 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 6:34:09 PM
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| Slapshot. The gift that keeps on giving. |
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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2014 : 6:37:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Spud
Slapshot. The gift that keeps on giving.
Have you tried penicillin? |
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Billy Mays
(Finally Got A Star!)
71 Posts |
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cMan2KellyCup
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
540 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2014 : 1:28:07 PM
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| We really do have it good in Cincinnati! We have a great fan base and we do our share in ticket sales, and with the arena owner owing the arena the team doesnt have to pay rent LOL... thereby keeping money in the coffers and butts in the seats with low prices. I think I heard someone say we had some of the cheapest tickets in the league. |
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