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Susan
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
986 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2014 : 3:50:01 PM
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That penalty was called for the goalie playing the puck outside the trapezoid. Anytime a goalie comes out and plays the puck from those lines behind the goal line to the corner it is a minor penalty.
Hope this clarifies this for you as we usually don’t see many of these.
Thanks
emailed Joe Ernst about the penalty & this is his response |
Hockey is life. All the rest is just small stuff.
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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2014 : 09:06:33 AM
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| My understanding is that There is a difference between "playing the puck" and clearing the puck. If Joe had just come out and poked the puck away it would have been fine, but he took control of the puck, actually made a fake and then turned and threw it in the other direction. When he took control he is considered to have made a play rather than just clearing the puck. In effect he was stick handling. |
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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2014 : 11:44:17 AM
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Directly from the ECHL rule book(rule 63.2):
"If a goalkeeper comes out of his crease to cut down the angle on a shot and after making the save covers the puck, this shall be legal.If the goalkeeper races out of his crease in an attempt to beat the attacking player to the puck and instead of playing the puck jumps on the puck causing a stoppage of play, this shall be a minor penalty for delay of game.
A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who, when he is in his own goal crease, deliberately falls on or gathers the puck into his body or who holds or places the puck against any part of the goal in such a manner as to cause a stoppage of play unless he is actually being checked by an opponent.
A goalkeeper shall not play the puck outside of the designated area behind the net. Should the goalkeeper play the puck outside of the designated area behind the goalline, aminor penalty for delay of game shall be imposed. The determining factor shall be the position of the puck. The minor penalty will not be assessed when a goal keeper plays the puck while maintaining skate contact with his goal crease."
It should be noted that rule 63.2 is simply called "delay of game" and then breaks down the things that are deemed delay of game. I posted above the part that applies to what happened the other night. When it comes to "playing" vs "touching" the puck the best way to look at it this, did the player/goalie change the direction of the puck in an intended direction? if the answer is yes, the player/goalie "played" or "controlled" the puck. If the answer is no, then it's considered "touching" and it's play on. We see this play out on delayed penalties frequently; the penalized team's player slightly deflects a pass but the puck was simply deflected rather directed in a controlled manner then play continues until the offending team does "control" the puck. So if a goalie makes any purposeful contact with the puck behind the goal line and outside the trapezoid it will be a delay of game. That being said, I'm not sure how it would be called if the goalie skated to the corner to play the puck and it took a funny bounce, crossed the goal line and struck the goalie's skates unintentionally.
Based on the ECHL rules, where was the puck and, if it was, did Howe maintain skate contact with the crease? I missed the play but based on accounts I'm thinking it happened like this. Joe, with a foot in the crease, stopped the puck in the restricted area. Then in his effort to reverse the direction of play had his skate leave the crease while the puck was still in the restricted area. Remember, a goalie's body can be in the restricted area, it's the puck that can not be.
There's my 8 cents...ok it was more like a quarter...on the subject.
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"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2014 : 2:58:25 PM
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| It's not where how is, it's where the puck is. A goalie could be standing completely inside the restricted area but as long as the puck is not, it's ok. The only time a goalie may touch the puck while it's in the restricted area is if he has a skate still making contact with the crease. Remember, it's not so much where Howe was as where the puck was. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2014 : 3:20:38 PM
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The restricted area is the trapeziod behind the net and it is the area where he MAY play the puck. If he is going to control the puck and make a play it must be within the trapezoid.
Joe was clearly outside the area. He was actually in the face off circle I believe. I like to previous use of the words deflected and directed. We have all seen goalies rush out of their cage to deflect the puck from an ongoing player with a poke check and no penalty is called. Joe however took control of the puck, made a move to do one thing, and then made another move directing the puck behind the net.
Whatever the fine points are of the call, It must have been obvious to the Cyclones as there was no argument from Simon in a tied game with three minutes left. |
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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2014 : 4:26:05 PM
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ok I'm going to use caps lock this time:
IT'S WHERE THE PUCK IS, NOT WHERE THE GOALIE IS.
The goalie may stick handle, try sick dangles, or any other many of puck control as long as the PUCK IS NOT IN THE RESTRICTED AREA. If the goalie maintains skate contact with the crease he may play the puck in the restricted area and that is the only exception. If Howe was standing in the bottom of the face off circle and was making contact with the puck while it was in the restricted area then it's a penalty. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2014 : 9:47:38 PM
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Sorry Elvis. I think you have it backwards. Behind the goal line he can only n handle the puck in the restricted area or anywhere in front of the goal line. The following are the Hockey Rules that apply:
1.8 Goalkeeper’s Restricted Area - A restricted trapezoid-shaped area behind the goal will be laid out as follows: Five feet (5') outside of each goal crease (six feet (6') from each goal post), a two-inch (2") red line shall be painted extending from the goal line to a point on the end of the rink ten feet (10') from the goal crease (eleven feet (11') from the goal post) and continuing vertically up the kick plate (see diagram on the page iv preceding the table of contents). (Paint code PMS 186)
27.8 Restricted Area – A goalkeeper shall not play the puck outside of the designated area behind the net. This area shall be defined by lines that begin six feet (6’) from either goal post and extend diagonally to points twenty-eight feet (28’) apart at the end boards. Should the goalkeeper play the puck outside of the designated area behind the goal line, a minor penalty for delay of game shall be imposed. The determining factor shall be the position of the puck. The minor penalty will not be assessed when a goalkeeper plays the puck while maintaining skate contact with his goal crease
The goalie CAN play the puck in the defensive zone in front of the goal line at any time which we often see them do. We will see them rush out to poke check the puck away from an on coming player and we see them often come out on a power play to get the puck quickly and pass it up it up to a forward in the neutral zone. What Joe did was get the puck within the faceoff circle (legal), faked a pass and then took the puck with him as he skated back behind the goal line. As he was then behind the goal line and not in the restricted area, he was in violation of 27.8. He was no where near the restricted area.Notice Susan's initial post from Joe Ernst. He defines it that way evry simply--cant play the puck behind the goal line unless the puck is in the trapezoid.
Additionally he is not allowed to play the puck outside of the defensive zone. He cannot take the puck into the neutral zone. He has to stay in his defensive zone.
Keep in mind it is called the "restricted area" not because the goalie is restricted to what he can do while in it, but the other players are restricted to what they can do with the goalie while he is in it. In effect it it like a crease behind the net. |
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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2014 : 09:28:14 AM
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"The determining factor shall be the position of the puck."
as long as the puck is in front of the goal line or in the trapezoid he's ok. If the goalie maintains a skate in the crease and plays the puck while it's in the restricted area it's ok. It's right there in the rule. THE PUCK SHALL BE THE DETERMINING FACTOR.
Perhaps Jablonski should have just called it slashing like he did everything else. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2014 : 09:41:53 AM
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I sent the following email to Joe Ernst:
to jernst
Joe,
Thank you for taking the time to read this email, I'm sure you've probably received a few emails on this topic but if you could take the time to clarify a few nuances of this rule and how it applies to goalies, I would appreciate it.
I understand the basics of the trapezoid and rule 63.2 (Delay of Game), I've copied th portion that applies to goalies from the ECHL rule book:
"If a goalkeeper comes out of his crease to cut down the angle on a shot and after making the save covers the puck, this shall be legal.If the goalkeeper races out of his crease in an attempt to beat the attacking player to the puck and instead of playing the puck jumps on the puck causing a stoppage of play, this shall be a minor penalty for delay of game.
A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who, when he is in his own goal crease, deliberately falls on or gathers the puck into his body or who holds or places the puck against any part of the goal in such a manner as to cause a stoppage of play unless he is actually being checked by an opponent.
A goalkeeper shall not play the puck outside of the designated area behind the net. Should the goalkeeper play the puck outside of the designated area behind the goal line, a minor penalty for delay of game shall be imposed. The determining factor shall be the position of the puck. The minor penalty will not be assessed when a goal keeper plays the puck while maintaining skate contact with his goal crease."
As I read the rule, the position of the puck is the determining factor. So by my interpretation, if the puck is in front of the goal line the goalie may play the puck without penalty regardless of where the goalie is in the defensive zone. If the PUCK is in the restricted area the goalie can not play unless a skate contact is made with the crease.
What determines "playing the puck in the restricted area," the goalies physical body position or the pucks location?
Thank you
Joe's response:
Joe Ernst
9:30 AM (4 minutes ago)
to me
Pucks location
******
In regards to rule 63.2 - delay of game, which is what Jablonski called on Howe, can we please consider the interpretation of this rule settled. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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jevers
Administrator
USA
1367 Posts |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2014 : 01:03:39 AM
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| Amen |
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