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hrc666
(Loves To Post!)
1363 Posts |
 Posted - 11/22/2007 : 02:01:40 AM
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One of the huge disadvantages faced by the Cyclones is the cost of advertising in a market as large as Cincinnai. It's not cheap to buy airtime on radio/TV, etc. Other than the Stingers, no hockey team in this market has really received decent coverage. And even with the Stingers, their coverage would be reduced dramatically when spring training (Reds) opened.
I believe that unless the virtual media blackout of the clones is repaired, then this franchise is finished. Whether it be at the end of this year or next year, something dramatic has to happen. Niederlander can't justify the losses that they're incurring. Unfortunately, minor league franchises don't generally attract top-notch people in their front office. The pay is not good. Anyone with real marketing flair can earn a ton more in another job. A job that, in most cases, is probably easier than trying to sell hockey tickets here.
The local media had more reasons to cover the Ducks in 2004-05 than today's Cyclones. They played in a much better league. The NHL had a lockout of their players that year. The Ducks played in arguably the best hockey league in the world that year. About half of the Duck players ended up in the NHL the next year. And the local media didn't cover them much anyway. I am fairly certain that the Ducks advertised more heavily that year than the Cyclones do now. They had the market to themselves and only drew about 4500 their last year. And that was announced. I recall many games when The Gardens was far less than half full and the crowd was listed at 6000 or so. Not exeraggerated as badly as Dayton does now, but significantly juiced. I could buy scalped tickets right outside the Gardens for as little as $3 most nights. Scalpers would have a handful of comped tickets. My guess is that they probably only averaged 2500-3000 or so fully paid tickets that year. If that many. I believe that insufficient media coverage, in addition to the stupid hockey war, played a major reason in the Duck's failure. They certainly worked hard to promote their team. But, they ultimately failed.
As far as the media coverage is concerned, mabey the Cyclones could just buy coverage in The Enquirer. And write the articles in house. The Enquirer, like almost all newspapers, has had its circulation decline dramatically with the rise of the internet. It may be expensive to do, but if Ray Harris and Co. were willing to part with some major bucks (how much I don't know), they could possibly buy ample coverage/advertising with The Enquirer. It's worth a shot. This team is in dire need of a repetitive message source. People like to go to 'popular' things. More would perceive the Cyclones as such if they saw them covered 3/4 times per week in the paper accompanied with advertising. The Enquirer is the best source available.
And why not deeply discount the tickets? I'm a season ticket holder. I wouldn't care. There aren't enough of us to worry about anyway. If they lose half of the seaon ticket base and gain 2000 per game, then they will have succeeded. It is possible that the current pricing model isn't working.
But, the price of the tickets may not be the issue with most people. I find it hard to believe that something priced similar to a movie admission is too expensive. But, perhaps I'm wrong.
Just some thoughts. Prolly stupid ones |
"The only way David Desharnais will see an NHL game is if he buys a ticket".
--donnie hockey
"David Desharnais will be invisible during 5 on 5 hockey. IN THE AHL"
--donnie hockey
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Edited by - hrc666 on 11/22/2007 03:01:39 AM |
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Hakeedude
(Been Here Awhile)
524 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 07:58:12 AM
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So what is the difference between the wildly successful 90s when attendance was amazing both at The Gardens and even after the move to US Bank? Obviously not the level of hockey, since the ECHL days were just as packed as the IHL days. I still remember Cincinnati Magazine calling the Cyclones the "hottest cheap date in town.
And as I recall, we bitched about media coverage then.
I also agree that dropping ticket prices as well as the $1 dollar beer/soda/hotdog/popcorn nights plus some advertising is the best way to draw fans, AS WELL AS bring in a larger profit for the Arena.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Hakeedude |
Pictures of Aloha Music Camp, Moloka`i, and Maui at
http://community.webshots.com/user/hakeedude |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 09:59:58 AM
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So what is the difference between the wildly successful 90s when attendance was amazing both at The Gardens and even after the move to US Bank? Obviously not the level of hockey, since the ECHL days were just as packed as the IHL days. I still remember Cincinnati Magazine calling the Cyclones the "hottest cheap date in town.
Hakeedude Posted - 11/22/2007 : 07:58:12 AM
You hit the nail right on the head with the last statement.My wife and
I sometimes go to the second run theatres to see a "second rate" movie.
When we go,we have no problem buying another $10 worth of sodas and
popcorn.When we pay full price, the snacks come when we get home. The
Cyclones aren't the discount movie price,but should only be the first
run price.I don't remember any "power drinking" beer fans at the Gardens
but instead plenty of teenagers with dates having a great time. |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 11:00:49 AM
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The only reason the AHL team didn't take the ice at the Gardens in 2005-06 was due to the lack of an available NHL affiliate. Attendance was not the issue. Geography and where Cincinnati fits in with the rest of the AHL is the primary reason the AHL is not in Cincinnati today. As soon as Lexington and Louisville left the AHL, Cincinnati was on the clock.
Because of the travel schedule an AHL team would be faced with in Cincinnati, it limits the amount of practice time a team would have and therein lies the primary reason the AHL is no longer in Cincinnati and won't be any time soon. The AHL is a developmental league and practice is a kep component to player development.
For the AHL to work here, there would need to be a minimum of 12 day of game road trips that had the team back in Cincinnati between midnight and 1:00 a.m. Without teams in Lexington, Louisville and Indianapolis that's not going to happen so for all the fans that are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the AHL to come back, that's not going to happen any time soon. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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Caitskee
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 11:21:59 AM
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He said that's the first email he had received in months asking for coverage. So lets all call him and email him for more. That's something that WE can change.
I called the Enquirer sports editor last season when we were in first place, and had a pretty lengthy conversation over this issue. His main points were the attendance isn't high, the demand for the coverage wasn't there, and that they don't have a staff of reporters to be at the Cyclones games. He said that they have a staff that they send to games to report on them later, and that the bigger articles put in the paper about distinctive players are only because someone came to them with those stories... pretty much, they know nothing about hockey or our team and would rather send their staff to Bengals, Reds, or highschool football games. Whenever we find something that should be put in there, give them a call. Tell them our stories. Give them information to write up about. |
~IN CHUCK WE TRUST~ |
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Hakeedude
(Been Here Awhile)
524 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 12:56:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
The only reason the AHL team didn't take the ice at the Gardens in 2005-06 was due to the lack of an available NHL affiliate. Attendance was not the issue. Geography and where Cincinnati fits in with the rest of the AHL is the primary reason the AHL is not in Cincinnati today. As soon as Lexington and Louisville left the AHL, Cincinnati was on the clock.
Because of the travel schedule an AHL team would be faced with in Cincinnati, it limits the amount of practice time a team would have and therein lies the primary reason the AHL is no longer in Cincinnati and won't be any time soon. The AHL is a developmental league and practice is a kep component to player development.
For the AHL to work here, there would need to be a minimum of 12 day of game road trips that had the team back in Cincinnati between midnight and 1:00 a.m. Without teams in Lexington, Louisville and Indianapolis that's not going to happen so for all the fans that are sitting on the sidelines waiting for the AHL to come back, that's not going to happen any time soon.
DH-I have to respectfully disagree re the attendance. I did go to several Duckie games with my son, and the drop in attendance was noteable to me. Perhaps someone could dig up some figures, but it did seem to me that the crowds were diminishing before they pulled the affiliations. I will certainly defer to your thoughts about the AHL affiliations and reasons for leaving in particular.
I personally am very satisfied today with the level of play currently displayed in the ECHL. It's at so much more of a higher level than it was during the Tom ("oops-it hopped over my stick") Neziol days(God rest his soul-he was a favorite of mine). But those were great times too!
Hakeedude |
Pictures of Aloha Music Camp, Moloka`i, and Maui at
http://community.webshots.com/user/hakeedude |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 2:25:18 PM
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Don't forget the old ECHL days when the net was dislodged any time
a second rebound in front happened. What I miss was having Columbus
(OH),Dayton and Louisville teams for close road trips. |
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Cyclones4EVER
(Rookie)
20 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 2:48:16 PM
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___Year________Team________League____Total Att___HG___Avg Att______Arena_________Ticket Prices
1990-1991__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL____246,272___32___7,696___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$8
1991-1992__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL____303,136___32___9,473___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$8__$10
1992-1993__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____345,343___41___8,423___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$8__$10
1993-1994__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____335,872___41___8,192___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$8__$10__$12
1994-1995__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____339,521___41___8,281___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$8__$10__$12
1995-1996__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____307,828___41___7,508___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$8__$10__$12
1996-1997__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____292,576___41___7,136___Cincinnati Gardens___$6__$10__$12__$15
1997-1998__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____315,823___41___7,713___The Crown__________$8__$12__$15__$17
1998-1999__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____257,398___41___6,278___The Crown__________$8__$12__$15__$17
1999-2000__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____294,790___41___7,190___Firstar Center________$8__$12__$15__$17
2000-2001__Cincinnati Cyclones___IHL_____190,076___41___4,636___Firstar Center________$8__$12__$15__$17
2001-2002__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL____110,493___36___3,069___US Bank Arena______$9__$15__$17
2002-2003__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL____131,144___36___3,642___US Bank Arena______$9__$15__$17
2003-2004__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL_____79,366___36___2,204___US Bank Arena______$9__$15__$17
2004-2005__Cincinnati Cyclones__Not Active Did Not Play
2005-2006__Cincinnati Cyclones__Not Active Did Not Play
2006-2007__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL_____66,396___36___1,844___US Bank Arena______$12__$17__$22.50
2007-2008__Cincinnati Cyclones__ECHL_____13,663___7____1,952___US Bank Arena______$12__$17__$22.50
__________________________Total______3,629,697__584___5,952
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 2:50:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hakeedude
DH-I have to respectfully disagree re the attendance. I did go to several Duckie games with my son, and the drop in attendance was noteable to me. Perhaps someone could dig up some figures, but it did seem to me that the crowds were diminishing before they pulled the affiliations. I will certainly defer to your thoughts about the AHL affiliations and reasons for leaving in particular.
Hakeedude[/b]
Having been directly involved I can assure you that attendance had nothing whatsoever to do with Anaheim's decision to leave Cincinnati for Portland. Anaheim did not own or have any financial stake in the AHL franchise at the Gardens. The Ducks could have drawn 10,000 a game at the Gardens and Anaheim still would have made the same decision.
Attendance was down in 2004-05 over 2003-04 at the Gardens, but a lot of teams in the AHL experienced an attendance drop that season, some more significant than the Ducks. You have to look at the entire league and not just one city to make an accurate judgement on an attendance drop. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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SCUBA
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
584 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2007 : 10:47:11 PM
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| I'm ok with the media's contention that it's not their job to generate interest, however I do believe that it's their job to report the sports...and seeing that Hockey is a sport, they should report it. every pro sport, and I would suppose that someone would contend that Clone hockey isn't pro however every pro sport in Cincy should be reported in some form. Secondly if any TV station would adopt the Clones on on a full time basis, that would generate instant watchers of their programs. I'm tired of keeping the different channels on speed dial trying to catch what little coverage they might have. Same goes for the paper, instant subscribers if they covered the Clones on a more regular basis. another thing I felt it interesting, That the first couple of post to this thread included responses from a few media types, I thought that I heard at one time that Lance on 1530 talked bad about the clones quite frequently and now he is a fan? The Angry Guys, most of the time I hear comments from them usually include the phrase "who cares" so i'm not certain at times I really want that much talk from these guys anyway. lastly being that Donnie has posted recently, I have a question from him reguarding an era of the Clones he would be familiar. Clones game maybe 1994 season, the game opened up with the gardens completly dark....then the goal lights came on...then you heard a siren much like a tornado siren, then you heard one of the area weatherman declaring a Cyclone warning, I thought that was cool stuff and would cost very little at the Clone games now...any info |
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Cyclones4EVER
(Rookie)
20 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 12:45:45 AM
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I have posted some Old Newspaper Articles on this website
Please take a look and remember how The Cincinnati Enquirer
use to write about our hockey team in this town.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclones4ever |
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cyclonehole
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
985 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 12:59:14 AM
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| Amazing job on those newspaper articles. Wow, the memories those bring back. I might actually be shedding some tears. |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 02:53:10 AM
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i think when the editor of the enquirer gets letters and calls from fans requesting coverage i think he/she might be confused as to what we're asking for. they may think we are asking for regular feature stories when all we really want is some recognition in the form of the box score and a couple of paragraphs recapping the game.
i looked through the clippings that cyclones4ever posted and it took me back. things like the coliseum buy out were definitely worthy of being headline news. but several of those articles were just game recaps. there is no need for the media to cover every player transaction the team has but an article at the end of last season recapping it and mentioning that after the cyclones were done several players returned to the hamilton bulldogs and won a calder cup. something like that would go a long way to giving the team crediblity. so would the game recaps and box score.
it doesn't really matter how much marketing the team does, if there team lacks coverage then it doesn't seem credible to the general public. if the media can't afford to send a writer to the games and says that if the team wants something written to provide them with the facts and info, why not have a team representative write up a game recap and send it in immediately after each game. |
"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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Caitskee
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
620 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 02:56:54 AM
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| Apparently that's what happens. They report to the paper and that's what goes in. So it might be at both ends that needs help on this. If we aren't making calls or are only sending them a game report they're gonna look at it and say ok this was the score and that's all that's going in. |
~IN CHUCK WE TRUST~ |
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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2007 : 03:36:30 AM
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this is what was put on the website after the wheeling game on tuesday. i would be thrilled if something like this showed up on a regular basis.
Cyclones Wheel To 3-1 Win Over Nailers
Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2007
CINCINNATI – The Cincinnati Cyclones added a chapter to the club’s record book in a 3-1 win Tuesday night over the Wheeling Nailers. The Cyclones extended their unbeaten streak to seven games (6-0-1), tying the mark set by the 2001-02 squad (5-0-2). Jean-Michel Daoust extended his goal scoring streak to seven games and netted the game winning goal for the third time this season.
Wheeling opened the scoring at 11:43 of the first period, when rookie Chris Snavely scored his first professional goal off of a feed from Gino Pisellini. The shots on goal favored Cincinnati, 13-11, in the opening period.
Cincinnati responded with a pair of goals in the second period, as rookie David Desharnais netted his seventh goal of the campaign at 6:22, with Chad Starling adding the assist. Right wing Jean-Michel Daoust gave the Cyclones the lead with his eighth goal at 8:35, as Greg Gallagher and Conrad Martin had the helpers. The shots on goal favored Cincinnati, 15-8, in the second twenty-minutes.
The Cyclones closed out the scoring with 25 seconds to play when forward Scott Reynolds scored his fifth goal of the season on an empty net goal. Daoust and Desharnais added the assists to close the scoring. The Cyclones outshot Wheeling for the night, 42-26.
The Cyclones improve to 10-3-1 on the season, their best record through 14 games in team history. The win also puts Cincinnati two points in front of Elmira for the North Division lead. Wheeling drops to 6-4-1 on the year, fourth-best in the North Division.
The triumph for Cincinnati also ties the club record for wins in the month of November with eight (8-1-1).
The Cyclones host Dayton at U.S. Bank Arena on Friday (Nov. 23) and Saturday (Nov. 24) at 7:30pm.
Tickets for all Cyclones games can be purchased at the U.S. Bank Arena box office, all Ticketmaster outlets including select Kroger stores, charge by phone at 513-562-4949 or online at ticketmaster.com. The most up-to-date information and broadcast of the games can be found on our website www.cycloneshockey.com.
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"PBR can do that to you....1,2,3,12 beers and you're f**ked"
-oscar
"and i don't give a damn 'bout my bad reputation" - joan jett
"beer is proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy." - benjamin franklin
"is that a pulled pork sandwich i smell?"
"some things are just better without pants...."
www.cycwords.wordpress.com |
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