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elvis77
(Loves To Post!)
1435 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2009 : 08:56:07 AM
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i agree cincinnatifan. i know i wouldn't be able to afford season tickets in the location i currently sit if it were nhl.
the other thing is i just like the accessibility of the minor leagues. we get to meet and actually get to know our players and coaches. also, would we have been drinking out of the cup with the team after game 6 had it been the stanely cup? sure having a cincinnati nhl team win the stanely cup would be cool, but i wouldn't trade the expereince that i had last year for anything. |
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HOCKEYgod
(The Next Level!)
207 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 11:12:48 AM
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Cincinnati getting the NHL here would NOT happen- There would be some debate that Cincinnati is in the Columbus market. *Very much like how for the Cyclones to return to the ECHL after the IHL collapse, Dayton had to sign an agreement letting us into the league. Even though Columbus is over 80 Kilometers (49.7 miles) I think given that the Jackets don't sell out every game either- if they were SOLD OUT all the time, the area would be considered a HOCKEY HOTBED and the NHL would be looking for expansion cities in the area.
The Phoenix franchise is going to have to make another couple attempts at making it work before the league says 'OK-GO' There was some talk at one point about 2 teams in Toronto, moving the Oilers to Hamilton, moving the PREDS. Right now, with the economy the way that it is, I don't see the NHL allowing a QUICK MOVE or QUICK FIX anywhere ESPECIALLY to CHEAP, CONSERVATIVE CINCINNATI.
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2007/06/06/will-the-feds-help-bury-the-preds/
While I know that the hockey fans in this town would love NHL hockey here (for the most part) it will NOT survive in this city. Let's be honest, the PBA has better TV ratings than the NHL right now. I love hockey and most of you on this board do too but, bringing an NHL team here would NOT WORK. We'd sell out a couple of games a season (Pittsburgh, Detroit, & maybe C-bus)
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SCUBA
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
584 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 12:46:53 PM
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| I couln't disagree more, Cincinnati is one of those cites that don't fit a particular mold, I stand by my original statement, that many, most, all would go simply because it's the social thing to do.... I've seen folks at the bengals games simply go just to BE SEEN, never sit in their chairs, not watch 1 minute of the game. it the PROS it's what alot of socialites have been conditioned to do..., alot of you have said that this is a Bengals Reds city...however I Believe that that enthusiam is weaning, Under the right Circumstances and owners, It could work because it's the NHL. Now my intention was not centered on the feasiblity off NHL here. I would love to see it but we dropped that ball when we went with the WHL. Cincinnati has been due for some years for a winner, With a strong NHL ownership with deeper pockets, I feel that a team could certainly do better than a carolina or arizona team. |
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SCUBA
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
584 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2009 : 4:26:15 PM
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| One other point, altough moot, NHL into Cincinnati and I think that the main stream media would have no other choice but expand the hockey coverage.....this Pro league snobbery not only by Cincinnati fans, but the media as well. NHL still means big money.....news papers and the media is attracted to money(Pro sports) like stink on crap! |
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Hockey Traveller
(The Next Level!)
134 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2009 : 01:21:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SCUBA
alot of you have said that this is a Bengals Reds city...however I Believe that that enthusiam is weaning
How do you figure? The Bengals could have left back in the late '90s, but this city loved them so much, they voted for the sales tax to help build the new stadium to keep the team here, despite everyone's supposed hatred of Mike Brown. After all the losing (non-winning) seasons before Marvin got here, it only took one winning season (2005) to get that stadium sold out for every game since then, despite the fact that the team hasn't had another winning season in that time. This city has a lot of die hard football fans who are starving for a winner, but will still go to the games win or lose.
The Reds have only been here since, what, 1869? They have been drawing right around 2 million fans per year almost every year since 1970, except for the REALLY bad years they had from '82-'84, and they have drawn 2 million + for 5 of the last 6 years, despite not having a winning season since 1999. Bob Castellini keeps showing his commitment to making this a winning team by bringing people into the organization who have good track records, like Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty. He has no intentions of selling the team any time soon, and DEFINITELY has no intentions of moving the team, something which Major League Baseball has only seen one team do since 1972 (Montreal in 2005).
Don't confuse losing seasons with a lack of fan interest. Fans are upset BECAUSE they are interested. If they stop going to games, then the interest would be waning, but there is nothing to suggest that fans are losing interest in either of these teams. Both teams have continuously kept the interest of fans in this city throughout long periods of losing seasons, and I would venture to say that neither are in any danger of going anywhere in our lifetimes. |
Edited by - Hockey Traveller on 01/15/2009 01:22:29 AM |
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SCUBA
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
584 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2009 : 12:54:33 PM
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Traveller, Did you even read the paper this season?...when in this life time did Bengals tickets sell from third party ticket companies sell for under face value? 75.00$ tickets in some instances were selling for at or around $30.00.....My family myself bought the Bengals/Titan tickets from a friend of a friend for $50.00 a piece.....Well below their face value for the lower bowl just because we wanted to take our toddler daughter to her first game...his reply to us was he was unable to get face for them.....that equals lack of interest to me.
As for danger of the teams leaving...don't confuse the teams leaving with lack of interest, Mike Brown has carved a very profitable situation leaching off the likes of the Steelers, Cowboys, and Patriots...No where in Business history do I know of where a team can show total lack of desire to improve like the Bengals can yet recieve monies from those teams that have high sales in their merchandise. Make no mistake...Mike Brown has taken advantage of all the folks in Cincinnati and he knows where his toast is buttered.....Make no mistake The Cincinnati public wouldn'nt make the same mistake of voting in the same tax today for a stadium without extra stipulations. I know Mike Brown is not going anywhere, name me 1 city in America that has been more apathetic to an awful team then Cincinnati?
As for the Reds, The masses are staying away from the games....opening day..well what can you say about that that will always sell out because it's a social event...if it wasn't for Cubs games at home what would attendance be? it's easy for you to make those claims about attendance prior to the start of 2009, my assumption is attendance will be down, drive by the statium while the reds games are going on and despite the numbers you claim the Reds are getting, there are still seas of seats empty seats...lets face it the reds certainly are not packing them in, you must be using some type of formula that overexagerates numbers the reds get and the Clones fail to get...the numbers are down...go to a damn game and see for yourself, or read the paper, or listen to sports talk...multiple shows this last year was adressing what the reds intend to do to increase attendance.....are you living under a rock? |
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Hockey Traveller
(The Next Level!)
134 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 12:46:44 AM
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SCUBA, I agree with you that Mike Brown has stuck it to Bengals fans for as long as he's owned the team. But the loyal Bengals fans have stuck with the team through thin and not-so-thin, and even though ticket brokers and scalpers were giving huge discounts on tickets, those tickets were already paid for at full price before the season even started. A temporary loss of interest can be expected in a 4-11-1 season. But come July, optimism will run high again, as the Bengals blame their terrible 2008 season on injuries, and proclaim the team healthy for 2009. If you don't believe me, try to see if/when the Bengals put single game tickets on sale this coming summer. If it doesn't happen, I'd say that's pretty high interest, when a team can afford to sell tickets on a season ticket only basis without having to make single game tickets available. I disagree that the city wouldn't vote the same way on that sales tax today if a new stadium was needed, simply because of the success at the box office the Bengals have seen due to ONE simple winning season in 2005. That tells me that people today are more optimistic about this team's chances to win than they were back when the tax was actually voted on. But we will just have to agree to disagree on that, since there's no way to know for sure. I don't think the tax or new stadium was a mistake.
As for the Reds' attendance numbers, no formula for overexaggeration, just official numbers from MLB.com:
http://mlb.mlb.com/cin/history/year_by_year_results.jsp
I didn't make any statements or references to numbers the Cyclones fail to get. I know that most hockey fans in this city are enthralled with the whole number-fudging idea when it comes to pro sports teams (especially Cincinnati hockey teams) announcing attendance. But unless someone works in a team's accounting department or ticket sales department, who are we to question the attendance any team announces? Even if the fans don't show up, if the tickets are sold, someone had enough interest to give the team that money for those tickets. Admittedly, I don't read the paper, and I DEFINITELY don't believe everything I hear on sports talk shows. The Reds can average just less than 25,000 fans per game in their 42,000 seat stadium, which would put them right around 2 million for the season, and yes the 17,000 empty seats will still look like seas of empty seats, but the interest is the same as 1973 & '74, when the team was on the brink of greatness, and 1980, a year after they won the division, and 1999, the year they won 96 games. It's still not enough for Castellini, who wants the team to return to its glory days, and the fact that he has a plan to increase attendance, and shares it with the media, and the media makes it a story, makes it all the better marketing. No, the interest isn't as high as it was in the mid-'70s or early '90s, but it's still no less than any other time during the post-Crosley Field era.
And no, I'm not living under a rock. But I hear that black helicopters have been flying around town...probably looking for people to go to sporting events and count heads. |
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SCUBA
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
584 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 04:03:35 AM
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Nice post, with solid ideas, I also believe that fan excitment will be high in july for the Bengals, with a few mediocre draft picks and some fans will have them winning the Super bowl, add into the mix the possiblity of a GM and fans will still go. However tickets despite being paid for in full initially, didn't command nearly as much as they did in the scalper market then previous years, certainly after the 2005 season optimism was high but since then it has been a let down for most....a very important factor this coming year for the bengals will be signing TJ, however I would believe that you would see increased apathy if he was allowed to leave. I certainly agree with you in the fact that there are quite a few who bleed the orange and black...my wife is one of them, that will never change, however the folks who purchase tickets and sell them at a premium will have to beware this year, and in short if the tickets are not in hot demand...for me that does indicate a lack in interest. I would think that folks like 333-seat and select-a-seat will purchase less tickets this year and use a wait and see approach.
Another point you make athough I understand the point, I will disagree slightly, I too went out onto the MLB site and although the numbers attending Reds games for the most part have remained consistant, it doesn't directly indicate intrest here in the Queen City itself, take a game lets say against the Toronto Bluejays, low attendance night for Reds fans, and the next night the Cubbies come to town and bring a huge cubbie fan base....The Reds faithful are few and far between however it would appear that the entire Chicago metro area is in attendance. certainly you have seen the stands during a Bengals/ Steelers game, hell it's a Steelers home game for the most part....Bengals/Browns, large Brown contingent but maybe decreased Bengals fans, due in part to lack of interest...maybe?....we can spin numbers well to support both of our arguments, total number in attendance does nothing to seperate visiting fans from Cincy fans.....if the Reds, or Bengals for that matter the next year drop out of any contention early yet the visiting teams remains competitive, then we could fill the entire stadium with visiting fans and the number in attendance would remain the same as previuos years giving the impression of continued interest. As for the black helicopters, they are looking for me |
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