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Reggie Dunlop
(The Next Level!)
USA
399 Posts |
 Posted - 12/11/2013 : 10:44:20 AM
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Geez! The offense has become abysmal. The Cyclone have scored 12 goals in the past 7 games. That's not gonna get it. The team has benefited from some pretty decent goaltending, but the offense hasn't been able to generate much, as was exhibited last night. For the number of affiliated/AHL players here, the lack of a scoring touch is somewhat shocking. Hopefully, McFarland, Megan, Crowder or one of the other usual suspects will get on a hot streak. Two goals or less per game won't win you too many games in this league.
And don't get me started on the Power Play! |
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Spud
(Rookie)
20 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2013 : 11:19:14 AM
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| Power play? We're working on it. |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2013 : 2:57:56 PM
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I agree with the overall puzzle around scoring draught with the talent now there but don't agree on the PP. In the first period last night they had two PP and put together a line of Shalla, Megan, and Almeida and they controlled the puck, had great time on our zone, made some great passes, and created several great scoring chances. Only had one PP chance after that though.
What is equally puzzling to me is their play at home. In the ten games at USBA they are 5-5 and three of those wins have been in OT/SO. We have therefore won only 2 out of ten games at home in regulation and in those ten games, not counting empty net goals, we have scored 17 goals in regulation or 1.7 per game. At the same time in the 11 away games we have scored 40 goals in regulation or 3.63 goals per game--more than double the home scoring and nearly 2 goals per game more than at home!!. Not counting the three games away last weekend, we averaged 4 goals per game in regulation in the first 8 games away.
Michael Houser has a losing record of 4-5-1 since being returned yet has a 1.98GAA with a .938 save percent. He has been solid but as Reggie said, 2 or less goals per game aren't going to win many. We now have the seventh best winning percent in the league with eight place right behind us. Too much supposed offensive talent for this. |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2013 : 3:38:59 PM
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I could say "I told you so", but I'm not that type
Since the fluky 7-0 start, the Cyclones have scored 26 goals in 14 games (SO goals don't count). That's less than 2 goals per game. That is a formula for last place. Nothing can overcome this level of offensive ineptitude.
Agree with all that has been written. The first period last night was one of the few times all season that this team really looked good at home. The team reverted to its norm, however, in periods 2 & 3.
As I stated many weeks ago, the Cyclones record (when it was 7-0/8-3) was a mirage. If it weren't for the good goaltending this team has had plus its 5-1 SO record and 1-0 OT record, the Cyclones would be on the fringes of playoff consideration already. They're heading in that direction anyway.
And, Holy Moses, is this team soft!!! Other than MacDonald, no one checks, fights or stands up for teammates. MacDonald's quote from the Cyclones own site:
“I thought we played a pretty good game out there,” said Cyclones captain David MacDonald. “I think we still need to be a little bit more physical. I think that we created a lot, had a lot of shots…They’re a really strong team and one of our biggest rivals. We have to regroup, have a little talk, and have to be more physical next game.”
http://www.cycloneshockey.com/connect/blog/319/wings-rally-to-defeat-cyclones-3-1/
This team has not only been bad at home this season, they are boring as hell to boot. No scoring, no checking, no fighting. The Cyclones currently rank LAST in the ECHL in PIM per game.
Bad, boring and soft is the Cyclones brand of hockey so far this season. I wonder how long it's going to be before some serious booing starts taking place at USBA?
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Edited by - danc on 12/11/2013 3:50:55 PM |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2013 : 7:39:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by danc
Bad, boring and soft is the Cyclones brand of hockey so far this season. I wonder how long it's going to be before some serious booing starts taking place at USBA?
Affordable family entertainment. That's the Cyclones brand.
There aren't enough fans in the stands on any given night that care enough about how the team is playing for some serious booing to start taking place at USBA. |
www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2013 : 10:40:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
quote:
Originally posted by danc
Bad, boring and soft is the Cyclones brand of hockey so far this season. I wonder how long it's going to be before some serious booing starts taking place at USBA?
Affordable family entertainment. That's the Cyclones brand.
There aren't enough fans in the stands on any given night that care enough about how the team is playing for some serious booing to start taking place at USBA.
Hockey entertainment for the casual goer = goals + big checks + scrums + fights. They may not care about the W/L about "how the team is playing", but they care about the style (hits/fracases/fights/goals) of the team.
If the Cyclones don't deliver this kind of entertainment, then you're right, you won't hear boos. You'll hear nothing as there won't be a team to boo.
The brand of hockey of this season's Cyclones doesn't fit the bill of the serious or casual fan.
But, all is well. The Clones beat the pathetic Walleye 3-2 |
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PsychFan
(Finally Got A Star!)
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2013 : 11:06:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by danc
quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
quote:
Originally posted by danc
Bad, boring and soft is the Cyclones brand of hockey so far this season. I wonder how long it's going to be before some serious booing starts taking place at USBA?
Affordable family entertainment. That's the Cyclones brand.
There aren't enough fans in the stands on any given night that care enough about how the team is playing for some serious booing to start taking place at USBA.
Hockey entertainment for the casual goer = goals + big checks + scrums + fights. They may not care about the W/L about "how the team is playing", but they care about the style (hits/fracases/fights/goals) of the team.
If the Cyclones don't deliver this kind of entertainment, then you're right, you won't hear boos. You'll hear nothing as there won't be a team to boo.
The brand of hockey of this season's Cyclones doesn't fit the bill of the serious or casual fan.
But, all is well. The Clones beat the pathetic Walleye 3-2
Big win tonight! But danc, you fail to realize that most of the people we sit around on a regular basis could care less if the Cyclones win or lose. Do they want us to win? Sure. But the families that surround us are always enjoying time with their kids, watching Twister head-sliding, and eating $1 hot dogs. As Donnie said, it's about ENTERTAINMENT. And honestly, more people show up for the promotions and free stuff than the game.
You must be new at this stuff. |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 03:32:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PsychFan
Big win tonight! But danc, you fail to realize that most of the people we sit around on a regular basis could care less if the Cyclones win or lose. Do they want us to win? Sure. But the families that surround us are always enjoying time with their kids, watching Twister head-sliding, and eating $1 hot dogs. As Donnie said, it's about ENTERTAINMENT. And honestly, more people show up for the promotions and free stuff than the game.
You must be new at this stuff.
Can you read? I acknowledged that the W/L factor doesn't matter to the majority in attendance. It's about fighting, hitting, scrums and goals. That's what makes it entertaining to most. The giveaways only go so far.
The product on this ice is the ultimate focal point for almost anyone in attendance regardless of how one wishes to categorized them. Just putting a hockey team on the ice and distributing a few free trinkets does not get it done in and of itself.
Hockey has been losing popularity over the past decade. At the minor league level, it's had a precipitous decline. The number of franchises below the AHL level has been roughly halved over the past decade or so. Do you have any clue as to why this has happened? I'm sure you will share your vast experience with us and explain the dynamics of the drastic decline of the lower minors in hockey.
Let's hear it, champ.
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Edited by - danc on 12/12/2013 03:33:38 AM |
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dbc
(Been Here Awhile)
865 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 08:44:12 AM
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| I agree this team is boring so far and that is because it doesnt score and doesnt hit. Hockey in general has become more and more a game of defense and for 90% of the fans that means more boring. How many at a game--even fans--really understand and appreciate defensive schemes?? Defense and low scoring bore fans in most sports. What is the knock against soccer in this country? not enough offense--too boring. Would you rather watch a 6-5 game with each team having 40 shots or a 2-1 game with each team having 20 shots?. People go to baseball games to see runs and home runs not pitching duels. People go to hockey games to see goals and great saves. (and unfortunately some go to see fights). Let a Cyclone forward make a great goal and 3-4000 people stand and cheer. Let a Cyclone forward make a great defensive play in the neutral zone by back checking and 3-4000 people sit and have another nacho. |
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BP2011
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
531 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 09:46:21 AM
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| Donnie is right guys. We can complain/compliment as much as we want because we DO care how well they do and the type of product we see on a nightly basis. But on most weekend nights ESP usually they get between 4000-5000 on a good night, maybe 500-1,000 people are like us, but those 3,500-4,000 others are there for the giveaways, fun night out, cheap tickets (which we can all enjoy) that is what the Cyclones have said since they re did the tickets back in mid 07-08, entertainment brand. I have followed the Cyclones since I was 5 years old at the Gardens, and even the Ducks were the same way, except for more people caring about the product because of a higher level, its more about the entertainment in this city rather then the product. I am sure Donnie will agree that free parking at the Gardens got more people to go to Ducks/Cyclones games because of just free parking rather then the hockey team sometimes. On this board we care about everything, but the majority of people see the Cyclones as something to do on a weekend night or cheep beer on a weeknight. From my standpoint if thats what keeps the team around and looking good attendance wise all for it. But everybody needs to know that this is not and never will be an NHL town, everybody cares about the Bengals and Reds and what they do on the field, Cyclones are something to do, quite frankly thats fine with me because I just want the team in town I dont care what the marketing/front office has to do as long as the Bank has a team. |
08, 10 Kelly Cup Champions
08, 10, 14 American Conference Champions
08, 09, 13 North Division Champions
08 Brabham Cup Champions |
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Donnie Hockey
(Loves To Post!)
USA
1514 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 09:59:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by dbc
People go to hockey games to see goals and great saves. (and unfortunately some go to see fights).
People in Cincinnati and a lot of minor league towns go to hockey games because it's a night of entertainment, something to do with their family and friends. Period.
Hershey, Rochester, Toronto, Fort Wayne and Chicago are the only minor pro hockey towns where the on-ice product really matters to put fans in the stands. For the rest it's all about delivering a night of entertainment to sell tickets.
Most of the people in the building have no emotional investment in the Cyclones. Do they want to see some goals, some hits, some great saves and some fights. Sure. They like that. But it's not what's going to be memorable for them on the drive home from the arena. What becomes memorable to them is they connected with their family and friends, the social aspect of spending time together.
Disagree all you want, but that's just the reality of the situation for a lot of cities in the minor pro sports firmament.
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www.twitter.com/donhelbig |
Edited by - Donnie Hockey on 12/12/2013 10:02:36 AM |
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BP2011
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
531 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 11:36:11 AM
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Actually, I think Hershey can be put on a level all of its own IMO. Never have I experienced a game like a game at the Giant Center, been to two of them, when you get 8-sometimes 10,000 on a weekday you just put a notch above the rest but below the NHL, that is an amazing organization with obviously very VERY cemented ownership and community involvement, but also old players going back to live there when they retire speaks wonders to the community even more! Hershey Bears are to Harrisburg/Hershey (Derry TWP!) as High School football is to Cincinnati............God help you if you lose/God love you if you win
quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
quote:
Originally posted by dbc
People go to hockey games to see goals and great saves. (and unfortunately some go to see fights).
People in Cincinnati and a lot of minor league towns go to hockey games because it's a night of entertainment, something to do with their family and friends. Period.
Hershey, Rochester, Toronto, Fort Wayne and Chicago are the only minor pro hockey towns where the on-ice product really matters to put fans in the stands. For the rest it's all about delivering a night of entertainment to sell tickets.
Most of the people in the building have no emotional investment in the Cyclones. Do they want to see some goals, some hits, some great saves and some fights. Sure. They like that. But it's not what's going to be memorable for them on the drive home from the arena. What becomes memorable to them is they connected with their family and friends, the social aspect of spending time together.
Disagree all you want, but that's just the reality of the situation for a lot of cities in the minor pro sports firmament.
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08, 10 Kelly Cup Champions
08, 10, 14 American Conference Champions
08, 09, 13 North Division Champions
08 Brabham Cup Champions |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 3:18:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Hockey
quote:
Originally posted by dbc
People go to hockey games to see goals and great saves. (and unfortunately some go to see fights).
People in Cincinnati and a lot of minor league towns go to hockey games because it's a night of entertainment, something to do with their family and friends. Period.
Hershey, Rochester, Toronto, Fort Wayne and Chicago are the only minor pro hockey towns where the on-ice product really matters to put fans in the stands. For the rest it's all about delivering a night of entertainment to sell tickets.
Most of the people in the building have no emotional investment in the Cyclones. Do they want to see some goals, some hits, some great saves and some fights. Sure. They like that. But it's not what's going to be memorable for them on the drive home from the arena. What becomes memorable to them is they connected with their family and friends, the social aspect of spending time together.
Disagree all you want, but that's just the reality of the situation for a lot of cities in the minor pro sports firmament.
I agree that the socialization aspect is part of the equation. Even with me, it's that way probably about 25% or so of the time. At these games, I'm chatting with people a lot of the time and the game is kind of an afterthought at times. Nonetheless, there is a significant amount of focus upon the game by both myself and the others who aren't passionate about the Cyclones nor hockey.
However, this type of socializing can be done in any number of alternative venues....it needn't happen at a hockey game. It can occur in a restaurant, bar, or any number of places. There has to be something going on during the game that makes the Cyclones game the venue of choice for a socializing activity given the vast number of viable alternatives. The events makes the choice of a hockey game the preferred social venue are goals and the physical aspects of the game. Promotions and affordability also help drive the engine.....I am aware of that.
The number of teams outside of the AHL has fallen 35% since the 97-98 season. That year there were 72 teams combined in the CHL, WCHL, IHL, UHL and ECHL. Now there are only 47 teams (SPHL, ECHL, CHL, FHL) and that number is likely to fall dramatically in the coming two off seasons. I'll predict that between the ECHL and ECHL, at least 10 current teams won't be around by the 2015-16 season and the FHL will have mercifully died. A few of these markets will end up with SPHL franchises. Almost 50% of the markets for AA or lower hockey will have dried up in less than 20 years. This hasn't resulted from a lack of promotions or affordability.
It also hasn't been the "socializing" element of the hockey game which has changed. That is 100% identical from 97-98 to 13-14. Something else is at work. Just providing a hockey game, a few freebies and cheap beer is not the be all and end all of the equation. I attribute the majority of the massive decline to a change in the way the game is played.
The view that attracting people to a hockey game is just a function of "socializing" and "a night out" is not what drives the attendance engine. If that's what the group think of minor league promotions people is, no wonder the lower minor leagues are in such trouble and have consolidated so much over the past decade and a half. It's lazy, inaccurate and incomplete analysis of the equation. It also shows a complete lack of understanding of what their product offers on a fundamental level.
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Edited by - danc on 12/12/2013 3:21:46 PM |
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danc
(The Next Level!)
114 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 4:24:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BP2011
Actually, I think Hershey can be put on a level all of its own IMO. Never have I experienced a game like a game at the Giant Center, been to two of them, when you get 8-sometimes 10,000 on a weekday you just put a notch above the rest but below the NHL, that is an amazing organization with obviously very VERY cemented ownership and community involvement, but also old players going back to live there when they retire speaks wonders to the community even more! Hershey Bears are to Harrisburg/Hershey (Derry TWP!) as High School football is to Cincinnati............God help you if you lose/God love you if you win
I had a similar experience there.
When the Cyclones played Reading last season in the KC playoffs, they played in Reading on a Friday and Sunday. I saw the Bears play a first round playoff series on the free Saturday vs. Providence. The level of passion and knowledge of the fans who I sat around was astounding. The couple in their 20s sitting next to me were very fluent in the history of the Bears franchise and hockey in general. Very much unlike the drunken hilljacks who inevitably seem to find their way around me at Cyclones games!! LOL There were over 10,000 in the building (11k capacity) for a first round game. Unreal.
Fort Wayne is also (as another poster mentioned) a neat environment. Both of these teams have been around (Fort Wayne in many different leagues) for over 50 years, so generations of fans exist. Still, Fort Wayne actually lost the Komets in 1990 or so. They became the short-lived Albany Choppers of the IHL. The current Komet franchise is a different legal entity from those of the 50s through 80s.
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Edited by - danc on 12/12/2013 4:27:29 PM |
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bags
(Person With Nothing Better To Do!)
USA
2224 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 8:00:05 PM
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When you bring up the Hershey Bears and their fans, an unfair comparison
with the current Cyclones happens. With this last round of trades, who
is playing for us ? We have at least one new face it seems each game and
lines are constantly being changed. Look at the Hershey roster and like the
old IHL days, fans learn the players and line combos and your closer to the
hockey side of things. It's hard to get into the game when you spend half
the night looking up player's names on your scorecard.
Look at the returning players on the Hershey roster:
http://theahl.com/stats/roster.php?step=&sub=&season_id=43&team_id=319 |
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SCUBA
(Been Here Awhile)
USA
584 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2013 : 9:22:39 PM
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| You guys are stressing over forces that you cannot control, what happens....happens, scoring or no scoring, promotions or no promotions. In my little portion of suburbia I cannot stress over minor league franchises. I have no control of who will be around in 2015-2016. Danc, your dislike of the departure of the captain and peudo offensive threats are well noted but again maybe they shouldn't have skipped out of their taxi fare. I suppose it makes for interesting discussion if you enjoy talking about things you have zero contol over then be my guest....again welcome to minor league sports. |
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